Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

aapeli 🟣🥫🥔 ae

i dont really know the word for it, just the stereotypes of each gender

thats essentially what gender is The social aspect of things

locery going back 40 steps on the conversation

TiCtAc(✧×✧)

why stop there? Recognise the sillyness of all labels and become a free human

We'd die without labels We wouldnt be able to communicate

lolcery going back 90 steps on the conversation

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

in the world where gender does not exist there would be no female traits or male traits, there would be just traits

Agreed

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

gender: social construct Sex: biology and evolutionary adaptation

for me gender is also part of biology and evolutionary adaptation, just the psycological part of it, the social construct would be just prejudice.

I sometimes try to look through an entire conversation before i jump in

12:21 PM

And that ends me up replying to some stuff

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

My gender is not about how people in society percieve me, is about how i feel.

Based on a label thats also based on societies perception of the label

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

Maybe you think people dont have identity if it is not because of society.

This could be correct.

12:24 PM

But im not sure about it.

Humans typically enjoy labeling and categorising things, thats why we have labels like gender

12:26 PM

Its how we process information

12:31 PM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_(psychology)

Schema (psychology)

In psychology and cognitive science, a schema (plural schemata or schemas) describes a pattern of thought or behavior that organizes categories of information and the relationships among them. It can also be described as a mental structure of preconceived ideas, a framework representing some aspect of the world, or a system of organizing and per...

you derailed the topic

I wanted to listen to kitkat

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

you derailed the topic

I wanted to listen to kitkat

Ah apologies

Its okey, i dont think she was gonna answer anyway

for me gender is also part of biology and evolutionary adaptation, just the psycological part of it, the social construct would be just prejudice.

@Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し) - jump evolutionary adaptation: genes Cultural adaptation: memes (in original, dawkinian sense)

1:16 PM

I sometimes try to look through an entire conversation before i jump in

@berockly (TTG) - jump that’s actuallly a good thing to do

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

for me gender is also part of biology and evolutionary adaptation, just the psycological part of it, the social construct would be just prejudice.

@Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し) - jump evolutionary adaptation: genes Cultural adaptation: memes (in original, dawkinian sense)

genes create the brain, and brain is predisposed/designed to have gender because of genes (edited)

1:18 PM

Thats what i mean

ok, tell me some things that are a gender trait as opposed to sex trait

Well, i believe most things are likely gender traits as that is what models identity (who you are in your mind) (edited)

i personally classify gender as a sort of schema

like?

although hormones play a big role...

1:22 PM

i would need to remove those related to hormones...

i see gender related traits as ways of expressing yourself (clothes you wear, make up, hair style etc), and how you want others to treat you (use pronouns, keep the door for you or things like thay)

in that case yes, gender would be completely social

1:25 PM

for me gender related traits would be those traits we were evolved to have for evolutionary advantage linked to a specific sex. Why would they be gender traits and not sex traits? because gender defines behavior as it is part of identity. Although separation between hormone-related behavior and identity related behavior might be complicated. (edited)

1:25 PM

Also, hormones might shape identity to a certain extent.

i don’t understand what’s the difference between sex and gender for you anymore

Usually gender is related to sex, gender was in fact evolved to make us act different.

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

i don’t understand what’s the difference between sex and gender for you anymore

gender is the self perception of sex-related identity.

1:28 PM

The part of identity that is usually strongly correlated with sex (unless you are trans).

1:28 PM

A good thing to explore would be "would identity even be a thing without society". But thats a whole new topic

what if a woman is very masculine but identifies as a woman?

Thats feminine gender

she has all traditionally mascupine and none feminine traits

1:29 PM

then younsee gender is regardless the traits

1:29 PM

it only exists if someone splits the idea between sex and gender

There is 3 layers here, with different levels of correlation. There is the sex layer, the gender layer and the behaviour layer. The first 2 are very correlated, the second too are losely correlated.

1:30 PM

And the first and the last would be correlated through gender

whay uou call behaviour that’s gender expression

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

then younsee gender is regardless the traits

Well, not necesarilly, hunting is not gender expression. even if it was done primiraly by men of masculine gender

1:31 PM

I believe gender was evolved to make us feel different and thus act different. Giving us an evolutionary advantage.

1:32 PM

If sex alone was a thing, no gender, we would be psycologically the same, and would thus act very similarly, loosing that evolutionary advantage.

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

Well, not necesarilly, hunting is not gender expression. even if it was done primiraly by men of masculine gender

Violent behavior for hunting could still be atributed to male gender.

1:33 PM

not as gender expression

that’s what i have been saying, if a tribe doesn’t know what gender is, they are more similar to each other

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

that’s what i have been saying, if a tribe doesn’t know what gender is, they are more similar to each other

yes, i believe this is true, but even if they dont know it, gender will likely still make them different because it is something that is there in their brain. (edited)

aggressive behaviour is caused by physiological thing ie hormones

1:34 PM

so that’s sex, not gender

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

aggressive behaviour is caused by physiological thing ie hormones

thats why i mentioned before that i would need to separate hormonal traits...

1:35 PM

take it just as an example

yes, i believe this is true, but even if they dont know it, gender will likely still make them different because it is something that is there in their brain.

@Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し) - jump that would be sex, not gender

1:35 PM

all hormonal traits is sex

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

yes, i believe this is true, but even if they dont know it, gender will likely still make them different because it is something that is there in their brain.

@Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し) - jump that would be sex, not gender

sex would be the clear physical manifestations of the genes.

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

yes, i believe this is true, but even if they dont know it, gender will likely still make them different because it is something that is there in their brain.

@Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し) - jump that would be sex, not gender

Do you think male brains and female brains are exactly the same?

destin check what people mean what sex is gender is pls

1:36 PM

physiology, sexual organs, hormones it’s all sex

1:36 PM

gender by definition is socially construcged

1:37 PM

you kee mixing the two with rules i just don’t get

psychology is not fully socially constructed (edited)

1:37 PM

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

you kee mixing the two with rules i just don’t get

Do you think all divergence in behavior between men and women is just hormonal (or social)? (edited)

1:39 PM

Or do you think there is a aspect of identity that makes men and women have different internal experiences for evolutionary advantage aside from hormones? (edited)

i checked the source provided from WHo and it sahs

1:40 PM

no psychology mentioned

1:40 PM

it basically sags what i have been sayung the whole time

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

no psychology mentioned

wikipedia does

i literally pasted you the article they put as the source for that

1:41 PM

anyway i Need to go back to work

there is 2 sources, the other ones does mention it

1:42 PM

extensibly

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

Or do you think there is a aspect of identity that makes men and women have different internal experiences for evolutionary advantage aside from hormones? (edited)

this one would be gender for me.

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

Do you think male brains and female brains are exactly the same?

I think you’re simplifying things here a little bit. Male and female brains are the same anatomically, though sometimes there are slight variations on the sizes of certain areas, but given that it’s been documented that people can live fully functionally with no deficits with only a brain I don’t think comparing brains really answers anything. We barely understand how they work anyways without taking into account sex/gender/socialization

Milk

I think you’re simplifying things here a little bit. Male and female brains are the same anatomically, though sometimes there are slight variations on the sizes of certain areas, but given that it’s been documented that people can live fully functionally with no deficits with only a brain I don’t think comparing brains really answers anything. We barely understand how they work anyways without taking into account sex/gender/socialization

you completely missunderstood my point, read my following 3 messages

1:49 PM

Of course i dont mean actual notable visual anatomicall differences, i mean that male brains are likely predisposed to have a male identity (this might be triggered by hormones though, i dont know)

I see what you’re saying but I think that’s a chicken and egg problem. I mean what is a “male identity.” There’s no one way to be a man. We have ideas about what a man is/should be but that’s socialized

Probably brains in males and females (aside from social stuff) develop different parts/patterns of identity, which are really correlated to sex (those patterns are likely hard coded and designed to be there for each sex) (maybe triggered by hormones, but they are likely there waiting to detect if the individual is male or female)

1:55 PM

Well, trans people exist... Which are people whose gender identity fails to correspond to their physical characteristics, proving there is some kind of "male identity".

1:55 PM

And that if you have a "male identity" and "female body" that will cause you dysphoria.

1:56 PM

And you will not like your body.

1:56 PM

And i dont think thats social, its either genetical or trigerred at an early age because of something i dont know.

1:57 PM

I could be wrong though.

So what you mean by “male identity” is just a male gender then by the sounds of it. Again there’s no one right way too be a man though so I think we can’t say that a male brain is predisposed to a “male identity” cause a male identity isn’t a static thing. It’s different for everyone

Milk

So what you mean by “male identity” is just a male gender then by the sounds of it. Again there’s no one right way too be a man though so I think we can’t say that a male brain is predisposed to a “male identity” cause a male identity isn’t a static thing. It’s different for everyone

Exactly, and thus gender would not be only social.

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

Probably brains in males and females (aside from social stuff) develop different parts/patterns of identity, which are really correlated to sex (those patterns are likely hard coded and designed to be there for each sex) (maybe triggered by hormones, but they are likely there waiting to detect if the individual is male or female)

Also o think I see what you’re saying here but given how plastic and affected by socialization the brain is it’s impossible to say anything isn’t linked to socialization

Milk

So what you mean by “male identity” is just a male gender then by the sounds of it. Again there’s no one right way too be a man though so I think we can’t say that a male brain is predisposed to a “male identity” cause a male identity isn’t a static thing. It’s different for everyone

im isolating in "male identity" all the things that make you feel that way, not all the social stuff that is usually linked to males.

1:58 PM

Thats a completely different deal.

1:59 PM

Im not claiming all males (people who identify as male) are the same way of feel the same way, im claiming they all have something in common, and that is male identity. (edited)

Okay you’ve lost me. I don’t get what you’re trying to say, I’m sorry

And if they had male identity and female body that would probably make them feel dysphoric.

Milk

Okay you’ve lost me. I don’t get what you’re trying to say, I’m sorry

Well, i believe it is very reasonable that we are designed to be a different way as that would likely make an evolutionary advantage, because or bodies are different and prepared/designed for different tasks, its very reasonable to assume our minds are too.

2:02 PM

And that difference in minds apart from hormones might come from gender identity.

2:04 PM

Which could be triggered to be different by hormones, but is still hardcoded into the brain. (hardcoded specifically to be triggered by hormones) (edited)

2:05 PM

And in the future once its learnt, it wont change with hormones.

2:06 PM

And i dont even know to what extent it is triggered just by hormones or it is directly differently created from birth/development.

2:09 PM

Which is the thing that most models of only sex and only social lack.